Comments on: Old-School Vertical Hierarchies

By: Craig Scafidi

Craig Scafidi — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:28:57 +0000

Honestly Adam, when I took over the department it was one of the most underperforming in the plant. I realized almost immediately that in addition to some much needed physical changes to the department ie: 6S and Lean Management System, the guys just needed some leadership. No one had engaged them on a professional level in so long, if ever. I am happy to say that we are the cleanest and most organized department but the day to day challenges of sustaining and motivating keep me plenty busy.

By: Craig Scafidi

Craig Scafidi — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:22:33 +0000

Having said that, I know that years of dealing with it can take it’s toll. I am spending as much time educating team members on the value of the system as I am implementing the system itself. Let’s call it a PR campaign!! Every “change” needs one.

By: Adam Roberts

Adam Roberts — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 13:47:16 +0000

Hi Craig, I am curious if you have any ideas why your team would be unresponsive? I’ve seen this myself and am just curious to hear your thoughts.

By: Craig Scafidi

Craig Scafidi — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 13:41:52 +0000

Well said Mike….. I agree completely with the inverted pyramid management approach. As a foreman on a production floor I have done my best to provide support my entire team with some success. What has surprised me though is how unresponsive the team has been.

By: Mark Sessumes

Mark Sessumes — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 13:27:19 +0000

While I think the question of ‘old school’ relationships with customers and vendors in the value stream is an important one, I think a larger question is the overarching philosophy of ‘customer’ itself. There are many, many industries where the concept of customer does not exist. Wikipedia defines a customer as the buyer or user of paid products. From a ‘lean’ perspective, we know the definition of customer is broader. They are the ones that specify value. To your point, what is the ‘value’ management provides to the gemba? Do they embrace the value proposition? What about other industries such as healthcare? When’s the last time you truly felt like a customer at a doctor’s visit? Dentist? And what about government offices……wow, don’t get me started. Do politicians really see us as ‘customers’? So in my experience, many industries don’t even view the folks that are supposed to be their customers as such. This fundamental philosophical gap will prevent building a spirit of improvement outlined in the book Gemba Kaizen.

By: Michael Lombard

Michael Lombard — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:30:38 +0000

Oh Mark, we can currently work on eliminating the waste of inventory by pounding a few cold ones the next time you’re in DFW.

But that’s an insightful point you make about how the old supply & demand economics affects the way companies treat their vendors. Unless a company has fostered an organizational learning/continuous improvement/problem-solving culture, there is always the temptation to do the “rational” thing, which is to treat your vendors as good as you need to. But companies like Toyota, who probably have vendors pounding on their doors 24x7x365 don’t take this easy way out. They have such awareness of the benefits of collaborative supply chains that they still pursue the inverted pyramid approach.

That being said, there is only one Toyota. In the construction industry, everybody gets “fat & sassy” when they have work, and go to begging the next minute when they’re out of work. This leads to constant employee and sub-contractor turnover, which leads to stagnation in the innovation process. That’s why not much has changed in construction recently except now we have Blackberries!

By: Michael Lombard

Michael Lombard — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 15:31:05 +0000

Matt, not surprising that a highly structured bureaucracy like that of a university would follow that pattern. Big opportunities exist in these types of industries: government, healthcare, education, construction, etc.

By: Mark Standeford

Mark Standeford — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 15:18:07 +0000

Good post! I am in the Medical Device industry and I see different relationships between suppliers and subcontractors depending on the product or service required. I see that in some instances the sub-contractor is viewed as a partner and some that they are not.
My experiences is that it follows the economics model of supply and demand. If a contractor is in a market that has a large supply of others providing the same product then they are treated as you stated in your post. If they supply a rare in demand product or service then they are treated as a partner or even as you mentioned in an inverted pyramid. If I need a plastic connector I can bid that to 100 possible companies but if I need an acellular tissue matrix I have to court 1 of a handful of companies that supply it.
I think the construction trade is in an over supply position now so sub-contractors are treated poorly. When many cease to do business and the market creates a high demand that will change the relationships.
So can I help you reduce your Shiner inventory?

By: Matt Stambaugh

Matt Stambaugh — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 14:41:39 +0000

Nice post Mike. I am a staff member at a public university. I can say that IMHO the reverse pyramid you speak of does not exist here. In short, vendors < physical plant employees (janitors, carpenters, etc) < staff < faculty < administrators < state education board. This system follows what I like to call trickle down bitchanomics. The shit starts at the top, then rolls down the hierarchy being amplified as it falls. This is very evident with the budget cuts we are currently going through. Yes indeed, thank the gods for beer!

By: Adam Roberts

Adam Roberts — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 13:36:22 +0000

Definitely. It’s been my experience (electronics industry) that suppliers are often treated as second class citizens. I wish it was Friday as I now want some beer!